I Regret Nothing: Randy Couture Obliterates James Toney

The problem with boxers is that in an era where there was no such thing as MMA it was boxers, among all the limited-fighting-like sports, that claimed the general moniker of “fighters.” That’s why boxing became such a big money thing.

(Actually wrestling was just as big at the start, and stayed big, but legit shoots gave way to the infamous worked matches. And wrestlers, big surprise, trounced boxers in match-ups.)

Boxers are not FIGHTERS. They never were. Not any more than arm wrestlers are “wrestlers.”

Will a champion boxer beat most people in a street fight? Sure. But then so would a champion wrestler, or a pro football player. There are enough skills and toughness that carries over to do that. The difference is the vast majority of wrestlers and football players know they aren’t automatically FIGHTERS either. Even in a street fight their carry-over skills are no guarantee, and against a legitimate top FIGHTER they’d almost be toast.

This was an important bout. Because it’s time to STOP talking about boxers as FIGHTERS. It’s time for boxing to continue, but in its real place, as just one of many sub-skills. Drawing a fraction of the money it traditionally has.

Because traditionally boxers got to pretend they were FIGHTERS only because there was nothing more real on the scene. Now there is. Now it’s time for the pretense to end.

Couldn’t agree with ya more, Bo. The biggest problem “I” have with MMA is the embarassingly small purse that the top fighters earn. You can thank Dana for that since there’s really no competition. It’s a shame that these fighters’ careers are usually so short that they never see much of an income, let alone the BIG bucks. Seriously, isn’t a few hundred grand for these championship bouts ridiculous when the UFC is pulling in tens of millions on them? Embarassing for sure. I can’t STAND Dana because of this.

LOOK quiet simply IF James had of landed a punch it would of been a totally different outcome! Randy knew this so he came in completely aggressive for the take down. Full credit to Toney for having a go he will be wiser & a better fighter for this experience. Great written piece to Oliver Saenz!!!!!!!

James Toney next fight should be against KIMBO back in the ropes! Kimbo’s going boxing so why not this would make a great fight.

It was amusing to hear Toney, who had never fought for one second in the Octagon, run his mouth against a five-time UFC champion and world class wrestler like Couture. MMA is not boxing; Toney is a big puncher, nothing more. For anyone to have predicted that “James Toney will knock out Randy Couture” is laughable and reveals a very limited understanding of MMA.

I agree with Brad on what he said. I have nothing but the utmost respect for James Toney. Boxing world, he’s one of the most feared men in the ring. He wanted to branch out and try something else. He made one mistake, and that’s what Randy needed. Randy took advantage of an opening that James gave him and he made James pay dearly for that mistake. But I give James Toney all the credit in the world for stepping in there with one of the absolute best EVER to set foot in the Octogon. He earned my respect for even doing it. I hope it’s not the last time we see James Toney in the Octogon.

first of all…. randy fought a blown up middleweight… secong of all… toney is not a big puncher.. he was as a middle and super middle… never really knocked out anyone over that limit… stopped a few guys cause he tired them. he has a great chin good boxing skills… hes also a counter puncher and defensive fighter. James can fight mike tyson cause he can take mikes big bombs… randy cant take a tyson punch… tyson hits much harder than toney…. much much much…. talking about a young tyson in prime or even early 30s… today tyson cant even whip his grandma

a good example is roy jones jr in his prime 15 years ago at super middle (168) versus todays GSP…. roy would play with him and it wouldnt be much of a fight… actually roy in his prime would beat randy also.

A few things need clarification from my perspective. First, Couture could have demolished Toney with a 1 week training camp. Second, if you’ve fought at all or even sparred in MMA you know that Boxing skill straight up will get your ass wtfko’d or tapped out in a hurry to any fighter with hybrid skills of similar weight etc. Third, as a lifelong boxing fan, like many, I’m embarrassed but what I saw, and think James Toney is an ass for this shameless attempt to get his ugly mug back on the television. Clearly, this was about White adding another nail to the coffin of boxing, in his not to subtle attempt to drive boxing back to pure amateur. Believe me, Boxing is about a decade or two away from not existing on a professional level if this garbage and freak show continues. Average person doesn’t understand the difference to know that Boxing and all its amazing history is not MMA, and this type of freak show will continue to perpetuate a need to make a comparison of Boxing to MMA every time either one is mentioned.

Basketball and Baseball are two different sports, like Boxing and MMA, wish people would stop the comparison and not allow the James Toney’s of the world opportunities to embarrass himself and the sport he represented for 20 years by allowing him to compete at 42 freaking years old with zero MMA training. I don’t respect Toney for doing what he did, and the UFC is probably laughing there asses off at how it was spun an MMA vs. Boxing tilt. So lame.

“And honestly, aren’t these the kinds of fights that we need to see? The UFC could use a nice little freakshow fight like this every once in a while, it’s a lot of fun. There’s a legitimate rivalry brewing between pro boxing and pro MMA, and I think any and all fights made to test which sport is best will be good for both sports. ”

No. These aren’t the kinds of fights we need to see, there is no rivalry between boxing and MMA by anyone who knows shit about the sports. James Toney is one of the best boxers to ever walk planet earth. Randy is one hell of a tough MMA fighter. The rules are different, the sport is different… treat it as such. Toney had about as much of a chance in the cage tonight as Randy would have in the ring if roles were reversed. This fight was bullshit from the word go, obviously the MMA guy will win. Hell a good high school wrestler is going to beat a pro boxer 1v1 9/10 times.

Fuck these fights. Let boxers box and let MMA fight MMA. These “freakshow” fights do nothing to better the sport. Period.

I think that at some point in time, Dana said, NO MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACTS.
No, basketball, football, and baseball contracts are gonna happen here.
They want the “big” money? Let them go somewhere else. So, if these guys
dont have enough brains to get together and strike for better pay, then let them
beat eachother into submission for whatever Dana wants to give them.

Lets face it. When you take a punch in the face, and an elbow to the eye socket for
a living, you can’t be that smart now can you?

@Marvin8
Dana isn’t the money man of the operation and never has been.

@leo
Leo is completely deluded if he genuinely believes this. Boxers win at boxing, MMA fighters win in MMA. Randy is 47, he’s not in his prime. Get educated. Boxing alone doesn’t win fights against top level guys, it is a very small part of the big picture.

@leo
You, sir, may be brain damaged. GSP is honestly one of the greatest pound-for-pound fighters in the UFC. He is a master in every aspect of the fight. Roy Jones (as great as he may be in boxing) is still just a boxer. He would be totally out of his element. There would be no competition. We will see the same outcome every time a boxer tries to hold his own in the UFC: Domination of the Boxer.

Oliver Saenz

We had our words back and forth. Just because people weren’t giving James Toney credit at all doesn’t mean you should have went off the deep end on the other side. I believe MMA fans are the most knowledgeable Fight Fans you can ever have. And you should pay attention to them. I just didn’t like how little credit you were giving Couture. He is one of the smartest fighters in MMA. Why would he stand with Toney?

Couture got a single leg take down, that is something you wouldn’t see done against a well rounded MMA fighter. But Randy pulled it off against Toney, because Toney is still JUST a boxer.

The Boston Fans Rocked.

They started cheering louder the instant Couture moved from the mount to finalize the choke and even before Toney Tapped!

now i just wanna see sum ufc fighter return the favor by fighting a KNOWN boxer in the ring.

@Bo Bogdanovich
boxers arent fighters huh? just for the record, couture beat james toney, not you guys.

Jame Toney was a great boxer, the kind of guy who could stand in front of an opponent all night and not get hit. He was the 160lb Champ, the 168lb champ, the 175lb champ, the 190lb champ and the heavyweight champ. Respect.
Wrestling is the # one sport to make you ready to train MMA, but a good boxer who spent the TIME could become a great MMA fighter. It takes longer to learn (muscle memory) grappling skills than stand up skills. I wrestled and boxed as a teen and have done some Jitz since and grappling is all about feel. Boxing is about seeing, ya need both in MMA, but you can’t learn feeling your opponents position compared to your own in a year.

This fight should have never happened. It makes no sence at all. MMA is MMA and Boxing is Boxing. Waste of time for every one.

Whats next Formula 1 drivers race against Nascar?

This fight was bull$hit.

-Agreed MMA fighters are underpaid.
-Boxing is out of date, MMA will dominate.
-James Toney is desperate for show time.

I wrote a bunch on Oliver’s first article “Inevitable” so I won’t repeat it here BUT I do have something to add about the whole Boxing v. MMA thing that seems to be fueled from SOMEWHERE. Well, I think the “SOMEWHERE” has just been identified. When was the last time you saw a UFC main event fight re-broadcast on ESPN 10 minutes after everyone just shelled out $50 for the card. And no, ESPN didn’t show the Frankie Edgar – BJ fight over and over BUT they did keep replaying Randy humiliating James Toney. In fact, Zuffa shuts down youtube immediately after EVERY fight card but somehow ESPN all of a sudden had the right to show a main event? Hmmmmmmm

Who says Dana doesn’t know what he is doing????? haha And yes, Boston fans ROCKED when they started chanting “UFC! UFC! UFC.” And yes, that part was also replayed on ESPN!

WHOEVER SAID BOXERS ARE NOT FIGHTERS ARE IDIOTS!! IF IT WASNT FOR BOXING THEN ALL YOULL SEE IN MMA FIGHTS ARE GRAPPLING AND KICKING, KNEES AND ELBOWS TOO. BOXING AND MMA ARE TWO DIFFERENT SPORTS YEA BUT REALLY NOT THAT DIFFERENT. IF YOU WANNA SAY ITS NOT REAL FIGHTING THEN YOU HAVE TO SAY JU JITSU IS NOT REAL FIGHTING. ITS STILL ONE ASPECT OF FIGHTING.. NOW I WANNA SEE SOMEONE FROM MMA GO IN THE RING WITH A PRO BOXER…UH HUH WHAT I THOUGHT.. BUT BESIDES THIS: MARTIAL ARTS NEVER WAS A COOL THING TO DO. I REMEMER BEING MADE FUN OF FOR DOING MARTIAL ARTS WHEN I WAS A KID.. ASIAN KIDS GOT IT THE WORST. AND NOW THAT ITS MAINSTREAM YOU GOT THESE TATTOO GETTING, TAPOUT SHIRT WEARING DIRT BIKER LOOKING DUDES THINKING THEY’RE MARTIAL ARTISTS..WTF JUST CUZ YOU WATCH IT DONT MEAN YOU CAN DO IT.

Forget MMA vs. Boxing…let’s have a pure wrestler (no MMA experience) vs. a boxer. I believe we would have a similar result. I believe the individual has a lot to do with it, but I think that for the most part, a wrestler wouuld have no problem taking down a “pure” boxer…and we all know what would happen once the fight hit the ground.

@Bo Bogdanovich

ehh I agree with some of what you are saying. However, We’ve seen boxers succeed in MMA as well. It’s safe to say a top boxer is so good with his hands in fact, any standing part of the game would be dominated by a top boxer, and i’m saying a boxer, not a kick boxer. Because of the money involved in boxing I going to say boxing has attracted some of the worlds best athletes, if we are going to compare them to MMA’s. GSP is great in my book but in terms of athleticism he doesn’t hold a candle to Mayweather or Pacquiao when you see the type of speed and power these guys can generate.

I think if it was a different, younger in shape boxer who takes his time learning some take down defense – any good boxer could be a great MMA fighter. We’ve seen a 50 year old Mercer slowely progress into a more and more complete fighter.

That’s my take.

Couture whips Toney. . .Mercer whips Sylvia. . . Didn’t Mercer whip Sylvia (also a multi-time UFC champion) just as quickly as Couture whiped Toney?

The point is, in a fight, regardless of the rule set: boxing, kickboxing,wrestling, mma, it’s always the same. The fighter who imposes his strategy over the other fighter wins.

@Bo Bogdanovich

Note MMA also has rules that distinguish it from a street fight. Martial arts training that is designed for non-sport fighting or self defense includes groin strikes, eye gouges, throat strikes, stomps, knees to the head on the ground, small digit manipulation, use of weapons (improvised or not), etc. People need to remember all these fight sports are sports, and enjoy them. Those focusing on particular aspects of the sport (striking, grappling, some combination with rules) can get really good at those aspects, and that will perhaps come out in a self-defense situation and help. But remember you’re also training reflexes that are not so great for self defense/martial application. Your opponent (or very commonly, multiple opponents) won’t be abiding by the unified rules of MMA in a street fight either. So if you want to argue semantics regarding who is a “fighter”, none of the sport versions of martial arts represent a “complete” fighting system.

It’s kinda sad how I see the un educated mma (fan-supporter) cream there pants that one of there legends beat a guy on him MMA debut. Can you imagine the best MMA fighter talking crap then getting a fight against Wlad or Vitlai Klitchko in there first fight? No course not. First pff they would be killed stone dead and promoter and boxer be jailed. It just goes to show are poor MMA is when all a guy has to do is run his mouth and get a pay day in there sport. Dana wants to be like that other silly tart vince mcmahon. Taking his wresteling show on the road city to city like a circus. MMA my arse. It’s wresteling. You want it to be a proper fight you bring in the pride rules. Any top respected boxer would be ashamed to take part in this muppet sport you have. If any MMA guy could compete in the boxing world do you thibk they be involved in this crap??? Anybody?? No vouse not. Failed boxers is all most are. You most succesful striker would be raped by a top 50 boxer. Liddell concused. Jesus imagine what a half decent striker would do to him if franklin can ko his ass with a broken hand. i rest my case. by the way try doing a shoot in a strret fight and miss and watch your knees pop the hell out while been kicked to death.

Man, Oliver, This article is extremely excellent. I look forward reading even more of your articles, and tossing the occasional stone. Like now.
-Nate

I can understand most arguments here and believe that half the fun in following the fight game is the debate that comes with it but I want you all to know that now there is a change coming. There is a Company in Australia which I have heard to have great connections all across the world that have been trialing a new rules system that has brought them huge success. This rules system could still be criticized by the true die hard MMA fans as not being full contact using feet, knees and elbows but it is packed with entertainment. It gives a boxer as much advantage as a grappler and opens the door for a rough house street fighter to dominate. There is a large majority of fight fans around the world at the moment that get bored with fights that are taken to the ground for to long. Yes this is what wrestling is all about but the fact is its not entertaining to watch! Fighters.com should really source these Aussies out, it will make for great news and its only a matter of time before we hear it takes off.