UFC 1 Tells The Story On Why Randy Couture Should Defeat James Toney At UFC 118
By: Robert Rousseau Posted On: August 14, 2010 at 8:00am
A lot of people are offering their predictions on the upcoming UFC 118 battle between former UFC champion Randy Couture and boxing champion James Toney. Of course, anything can happen when two elite athletes enter the Octagon, even if both are on the downside of their careers (or at least we think the 47 year old Couture has finally begun to embark on his downside). That said, a prediction is really just an educated guess, and luckily when it comes to MMA we have a 17 year history to call on.
But here’s the funny thing: We don’t need all of that history. Nope, to offer the most likely outcome to this fight, we really only need to call on the first few UFC events. Heck, you might even be able to simply look at UFC 1. If you managed to dust off that old DVD (wait, VHS), here’s what that event would tell you.
When a striker has limited to no ability to stuff a takedown, the grappler pretty much always wins.
For reinforcement, let’s look at UFC 1. Patrick Smith was an outstanding stand up fighter. We’re talking about a highly ranked kickboxer here with current black belts in Tang Soo Do, Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, and Kenpo Karate. Then he entered the Octagon with shootfighting expert, Ken Shamrock. In less than two minutes, he was writhing on the ground in agony from a bone crushing heel hook put on him by his grappling adversary. Not enough for you? Then there was the fight between Brazilian Jiu Jitsu wizard Royce Gracie and Kyokushin Karate/Savate champion Gerard Gordeau in the UFC 1 finale. Once again, it took the grappler (Gracie) less than two minutes to take him down and submit him via rear naked choke.
Why did stand up fighters fail in early UFC’s? That’s simple. How many boxing or kickboxing matches have you watched where one of the first three punches ended the fight? Exactly, it’s hard to recall even one. How about one of the first 20 punches? Still a rarity. Then add in kicks from a distance, clinches, and the ability to duck under where boxers/kickboxers normally punch to grab leg style takedowns, and the problem becomes even more clear. Beyond a very fast superhuman punch at the exact right time and angle, it’s near impossible to avoid a clinch situation or an attempt at a leg style takedown. It’s the striker’s burden, if you will. Without takedown defense, they’re easy prey.
Which leads us to Couture and Toney. Sure, people will say that James Toney is an elite athlete, and that makes things different than back at UFC 1. Yes and no. Sure Toney is an upper echelon athlete, which would’ve set him apart in those early UFC’s; but so is Couture. Remember, we’re talking about a three time NCAA Division I All American wrestler and three time Olympic team alternate here.
Then there’s the argument that Toney has been training in grappling, which changes things. Well, sure. That said, does anyone here really believe that nine months of work will amount to much on the ground against “The Natural”? Let’s state this a different way. Couture has been training stand up for a long time now. Heck, he even did some boxing while in the service. That equates to more time than Toney has put in grappling, for sure. Now how do you think Couture would do in a boxing match against him?
Terrible. Exactly.
But wait, there’s more arguments against Couture’s chances that must be refuted. For example, there’s the idea that Chuck Liddell knocked him out twice, so a champion boxer like Toney should destroy him on his feet. But here’s the problem with that argument– “The Iceman” may have the best takedown defense in the history of the UFC light heavyweight division. Without that, he wouldn’t even have gotten the chance to defeat “The Natural”. It wasn’t just about his stand up and power, it was also about his ability to combat what Couture brought to the table in terms of grappling, something that Toney is unable to do. Same thing with Brock Lesnar, of course. There would have been no TKO victory for him on his feet against Couture if he had not been able to stay on his feet to begin with.
And then there’s the final argument for Toney. Simply put, some believe that Couture’s Greco-Roman background, which is about upper body clinches, won’t allow him to duck under Toney’s punches for a takedown. These people think that the height of his attacks will lend to him getting hit. To answer that one, all you have to do is remember that Couture wrestled in high school and college, where leg attacks are allowed (did more than okay, too). What’s more, he has certainly hit leg takedowns before (Tim Sylvia, anyone?). And finally, it’s not like his clinch skills are going to hurt him here. In fact, he’ll have the stand up advantage there, as boxers are used to being broken up when in the clinch.
In sum, it’s not that James Toney doesn’t have a chance against Randy Couture; he does. An elite boxer has a chance against anyone, it’s a formidable art. But the good money takes us back to UFC 1. Odds are Couture will be able to bring this fight to the ground fast. And if he does, things will almost certainly end in his favor soon after.
Randy Couture should win this fight because he’s smart enough to execute the right game plan against an adversary with little grappling skills in comparison. Enough said.
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Comments
Very good article, Robert. I enjoyed it a lot. Obviously I disagree, but you make some really good points. We’ll just have to wait and see…I still think Toney’s gonna win this one.
Rather poor analysis. Looking at UFC 1 as an example is useless. Were you alive then? No one even knew what Brazillian Jujitsu was. Art Jimmerson had no idea who the guy in the Gi was standing in front of him or what he was going to do. And speaking of Art Jimmerson, he was a bum with a 30 and 18 record, and only one of those losses was to anyone with a name that is even recognizable! Compare this to real Boxing records Vlad Klitchko 54 and 3, Vitali Klitchko 40 and 2, James Toney 72 and 6. And those records are against world class competition. On top of all of this, who was this bum that was beaten by other bums put in the cage against? Royce Gracie! a master grappler.
An elite Pro Boxer anywhere is a different species from a bum with Boxing licence, and to try to glean anything about one from the other is presumption. You may believe that elite grapplers have the advantage over elite Boxers, but just know that it is not based upon evidence.
Most MMA fans just need to learn a whole lot more about Boxing. The term “dirty Boxing” ORIGINALLY came from Boxing (though it is an MMA term now). Boxers train in the gym to fight in the clinch, because it happens in the ring, and one punch in the clinch can turn a fight. Infact punching in the clinch is not illegal, the ref is only obligated to separate it if the fighters are not working while their in the clinch. if Couture tries to dirty box he will lose, plain and simple. Even he should know that.
Oh and as for one punch ending the fight in a Boxing match. It might happen more often if instead of the 10 ounce gloves boxers wear, they wore gloves that were almost 3 times as small (4 ounces).
One more note. Randy did land a double leg on Sylvia but uh, Sylvia is 6’8″, James Toney is 5’9″ (much lower) and he is about 5 times faster than Tim Sylvia (For proof, search Youtube for his sparring session with the 175 pound former champ Danny green. On that clip by the way, he is using 16 ounce sparring gloves and he is punching lightly because of his opponent’s size).
All iwanna knw is how do you knw how long James toney been Been grappling??? Jus cuz he signed to the ufc 9 mos ago tht doesn’t mean nothn!? Ur talkin bout ufc1 like those were the best fighters ever lol… I’m sure ppl are much much more smarter nowadays, fighters especially. I think everybody should jus wait n see wut happens. Stop makin predictions!!!!!
PRO BOXER RAY MERCER KNOCKED OUT UFC HEAVEYWEIGHT CHAMP TIM SYLVIA IN 15 SECONDS!ENOUGH SAID
Decent article. Perciever is right though. This is FAR from UFC 1, James Toney is no joke. Also he actually spars with 24 oz. Gloves haha luda.
This is the worst article I’ve ever read. Comparing James Toney to Patrick Smith. You must not be at all familiar with boxing.