Fighter of the Month: Randy Couture
Posted by Chad Edward on June 16th, 2008Fighters.com’s second-ranked heavyweight,current UFC co-Heavyweight Champion, and UFC Hall of Famer “The Natural” Randy Couture(16-8) spoke exclusively with Fighters.com from his Xtreme Couture gym in Las Vegas Monday afternoon.
Couture graciously confronted and answered questions about his beef with the Zuffa, LLC and UFC President Dana White and third-ranked “Maine-iac” Tim Sylvia’s (24-4) and his own prospective fight with sixth-ranked “Last Emperor” Fedor Emelianenko (27-1), shared opinions about fifth-ranked welterweight Matt Hughes (42-7), “Kimbo Slice” Kevin Ferguson (3-0), and Brock Lesnar (1-1), and made picks on future fights.
Fighters.com: You’ve said you’ve accepted that you might get a bad court ruling and not fight again. Have you lost some competitiveness from being inactive for so long?
The Natural: I still want to compete. I’m still in training as much as I can be with all this other stuff going on. I still seem to be able to hold my own, even with the lack of serious, hardcore training, with all the top guys that I have in the gym. I’m having fun being in the gym learning new tools, new skills and being there with a lot of the other guys that have been there for me, so I’m not too worried about that. The courts are going to do what the courts are going to do. We’ll deal with it when it comes in.
Fighters.com: Not many fighters have wives who also train. Does that give you both a different perspective and more understanding?
The Natural: I think it’s pretty cool! Not many guys can actually go and punch their wife in the head. No…she’s training hard, she’s doing a great job and having fun. It’s been good for her physically and, I think, emotionally to get a lot of her frustrations and have something of her own to work with. It’s been a lot of pressure too because she’s dragging around my last name. It puts a lot more pressure on her and she’s been able to take that all in stride and deal with that very well as well. I’m excited for her, looking forward to her next fight on June 20th at the Thomas & Mack. It’s going to be great.
Fighters.com: At home, do you two ever move the furniture out of the way and have a training session?
The Natural: We end up wrestling on that damn bed all the time!
Fighters.com:At the Xtreme Couture website there’s a video center that is streaming the pro sessions daily. What are viewers likely to see?
The Natural: Well, they’ll can tune in and watch me in a class that’s on main mat and, certainly between 4:00 and 6:00 PM Pacific Time, is when our pros train and a lot of the top guys from Forrest Griffin and Mike Powell and Jay Hieron, Gray Maynard, and Tyson Griffin, Wanderlei Silva and the list just goes on and on of the top guys in the Vegas area who train on our mat. If you want to see technically what the pros are working on and what our MMA workouts are like, and get idea of what to do, it’s a great place to go.
Fighters.com: Do you think Fighters.com Light Heavyweight Champion “Rampage” Quinton Jackson (28-6) and “Maximus” Marcus Aurelio (16-5) have already bought their subscriptions?
The Natural: I don’t know! Maybe… I think Forrest and Tyson (future opponents of Jackson and Aurelio respectively) do the majority of their hardcore technical training in the cage, not on the camera. So, at least right now, you probably won’t see a lot of them on the mat.
Fighters.com: Did you watch Hughes lose to sixth-ranked “Pitbull” Thiago Alves (15-3) Saturday?
The Natural:I missed the fight Saturday. I was traveling. I was very happy to hear [Xtreme Couture middleweight] Martin Kampmann won his fight against Jorge [Rivera]. That was a big fight for him coming back off the knee reconstruction. I did hear about the Hughes fight and the flying knee; but, Alves is a tough cat. I kind of picked him to win that fight.
Fighters.com: Hughes isn’t that old, but is his age or the number of fights catching up with him? Or, is he just in a funk he’ll shake out of?
The Natural:Well, I think that’s on Matt. I think Matt is now running his own school. He’s kind of become the big fish in that little pond, where, I think, before, when he was training with Miletich he had a bunch of guys in there who were stepping up and challenging him when he was there training and making him better. I think that’s the environment that he needs to progress as a fighter. I just don’t know that he’s continuing to progress. Everybody else is. These guys are all getting better. They’re younger, they’re stronger, bigger, and they’re figuring it out. I think Matt is capable of doing whatever he wants to do. It’s just a function of applying himself.
Fighters.com: UFC President Dana White told Sports Illustrated that he spoke to you at UFC 84. Is that awkward? What do you two talk about? Is there any genuine friendliness left in the relationship?
The Natural:It’s not personal on my part and I don’t think it is on his part either. I think he’s an emotional guy who sometimes says things that he wishes he could take back or wishes he didn’t say and he’s made stupid comments. And, you know, yeah it’s a little weird going to the UFC shows. I feel like a leper. They work pretty hard to keep me off camera when I corner my guys and they don’t show any of the clips they could of me. They don’t let Goldie or Joe mention my name at all or where my guys are training. So, you know, those are conscious things that Dana has tried to do. I think they’re silly; but, he’s going to do what he’s going to do. I don’t have any control over that. So, I don’t take it personal. I talked to him, Lorenzo [Fertitta, Zuff, LLC co-owner], and Frank [Fertitta, Zuffa, LLC co-owner] at the last UFC. It was a great card. You know? It is what it is.
Fighters.com: White has also said that he’s ready to put you back in the Octagon at any time; but, you just don’t see yourself going back to the UFC?
The Natural:You never say never, but there’s a lot of things that’ve got to change. I’m in a position now that if the courts rule in my favor I can control my own destiny and make one of the biggest fights to ever happen on my own. And, get all of the benefits of being in a position to do that. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense for me to go back and give it all back to the UFC and let them walk away with 90-plus percent of everything that comes from those fights.
Fighters.com: You’re starring in The Scorpion King 2, soon to be released to DVD? Is that in the can?
The Natural:It’s done. It’s in the can. I filmed it in October and November of last year. I just saw a pre-screening of the movie last week and was very excited about the way it came out.
Fighters.com: I worry with you, Tito, Rampage, and others getting into acting. Do you think the higher pay for less pain of Hollywood is going to start stealing fighters from MMA?
The Natural: I don’t know. I think most of the fighters have a passion and love for what they do as fighters; and, if you were to achieve some goals and open those doors to the acting realm and have the opportunity to try that, it better work. I don’t think everyone is going to have the opportunity to crossover. You know, I know that Tito has made a foray with The Crow: Wicked Prayer and some of the other stuff he’s done when given the opportunity. Chuck’s been in a few things now. And, Rampage, you know, obviously, he definitely has the persona. And, I think the camera would be pretty friendly to him.
Fighters.com: Have you picked a winner of Sylvia versus Emelianenko in your own mind?
The Natural:Most people expect Fedor to find a way to take Tim out, and I can see that too. With his submission skills and the dynamic style of fighter that he is, I can see that happening. Tim poses some interesting problems and is certainly going to have something to say about that. He’s not going to be an easy fight. It’ll be interesting to see how it goes.
Fighters.com:Do you fault Emelianenko for not fighting top guys the last two years while you and Sylvia and other heavyweights were fighting each other?
The Natural:I think he’d have rather been fighting top guys. Bodog kind of going the way it went and PRIDE getting crushed by Zuffa, I don’t think he’s really had the opportunity to fight any top guys. I think if he’d have had his druthers, he’d have fought top guys. I’m sure he’s excited about the opportunity to fight Tim and certainly expressed a lot of interest in being able to fight me at some point. I don’t think it changes the fighter that he is or the guys that he’s beat. He’s beat Nogueira twice and Cro Cop and right on down the line. He’s beat a lot of top guys, just nobody recently.
Fighters.com:You just opened Xtreme Couture Toronto. Is that your first Canadian gym?
The Natural: It’s our first Canadian gym. We’re talking to some folks in Montreal who’re interested in franchising a gym there; but, we’ll see what happens. We’re very excited. The Toronto gym looks terrific! A huge facility! Thirty-thousand square feet. So, it’s a great big gym.
Fighters.com: Will there be any fighters training in Toronto?
The Natural: Chris Horodecki, and Mark Bocek, and Mark Hominick are all going to be training and teaching there. There’s a newer Russian kid coming up who lives in Canada who looks to be a very physical, and have the potential as a fighter as well, to be teaching there. So, I think a lot of the top fighters in the area of Toronto are going to end up there.
Fighters.com:You’re an elder in the sport. What do you think of “Kimbo Slice” Kevin Ferguson (3-0)?
The Natural:I like Kimbo! I think Kimbo has a great attitude. You know, he’s trying to do all the right things to be a well-rounded mixed martial artist; and, I think he’d be the first to admit that he’s not there yet, as James Thompson pointed out on CBS two weekends ago. He’s got some holes in his game still; but, I think his popularity has a lot to do with EliteXC marketing him as a street fighter and the Internet kind of street fights, YouTube phenomenon, if you will, that he is. I don’t think the two really cross over. If EliteXC wants to market him that way, I just don’t think it really crosses over. They need to be careful what they do with that because it could potentially harm the sport. But, that’s not Kimbo’s fault, that’s EliteXC’s fault.
Fighters.com:How about Lesnar in the UFC?
The Natural:Well, the similarities…Brock is a big name because of WWE. He’s still a good athlete, just like Kimbo, who’s being marketed because of his celebrity with the World Wrestling Entertainment. But, just like Kimbo, he’s got a lot of holes in his game and it was silly to kind of put him out there with Frank Mir. You know, I think Mir was underestimated. Everybody thought he was going to fold under the pressure and not take the shots that Lesnar was going to dish out too well. Mir showed why he’s an excellent submission guy, a great fighter, and a former world champion. I think, given the time, both Lesnar and Kimbo will be very, very good fighters in the heavyweight division. They both have the right attitude. You know, Lesnar is taking this seriously. He wants to be a real fighter and he’s taking that terrific wrestlers base that he has and trying to learn all the other pieces.
Fighters.com:Where’s the future of this sport? Is the current buzz going to level off? Does it have the potential to be a long-term nationally-broadcast sport?
The Natural: I think if the CBS ratings are any indication, it absolutely has the potential to be that long-term broadcast sport. I think it’s a function of who’s going to step-up and do it right. I think there’s some work that needs to be done with how the fighters are treated and paid; and, the person who kind of gets that combination and all that sorted out can take it to the next level. Obviously I think a lot of the fighters, at least the ones in a position to voice their opinion, aren’t too pleased with kind of being owned, being taken advantage of. I don’t know. We’ll see what happens; but, this is definitely the combative sport for this generation.
Fighters.com: Your response brings up another question. At the post-UFC 84 press conference, ninth-ranked light heavyweight “Huntington Beach Bad Boy” Tito Ortiz (15-6-1) was voicing a lot of the same concerns you’ve spoken out about concerning fighter pay as a percentage of total revenue. A reported asked Ortiz, “If you’re not happy with your pay, what is an acceptable amount?” And, Tito balked, saying, “I don’t know. You’d have to ask my lawyers.” Is that irresponsible to complain about your pay, but not have an idea of what your pay should be?
The Natural: You know…probably. Maybe Tito didn’t have a handle on all the numbers; but, it appears to be that on any given UFC, just on the pay-per-views alone, the UFC makes in the neighborhood of $40 or $50 million. And, Tito and I are two of the very, very few athletes that get a little piece of that pay-per-view and we’re lucky if we make $1.2 or $1.3 million. So, percentage-wise, it’s a very, very small percent of the total revenue. Now, Dana’s argument that the UFC is different than boxing, I think that held water before. You know, the UFC was having to pay site fees, do all their own marketing, all their own promotion, and spend money to keep a staff of 100 people; but, that climate has changed now. People are clamoring to get the UFC into their venues to sell out the arenas. I think there are TV outlets who’ll take the risk, do the marketing, and see the wisdom, just like boxing. The fighters could be getting paid a lot better! If I were getting $5 or $10 million dollars to fight out of that $40 million, I’d certainly feel a lot happier. It’s frustrating for me to see a guy like Floyd Mayweather. You know, I feel like we’re just as dedicated and work just as hard and have everything going for us other than not being in boxing and we’re in MMA. Floyd makes $20 or $30 million from one fight. That’s frustrating. We’re both combative sports and can be promoted in the same way, shape, and form. Now, I understand the UFC is still trying to spend money with Marc Ratner to get this sport sanctioned in every state and province on the continent, and all the other things that they’re doing. And, I think those are admirable things that are going to continue to grow the sport and have established this foundation that you, me, and EliteXC, and everybody else who wants to put on a show is standing on. I see that picture clearly, but I think the timing is right for someone to set the change for bigger shares of the purses that are derived from a fight from DVD sales all the way down, the ancillary rights, and all the other stuff that gets controlled and taken by the UFC and given back to the fighters, the guys who put it on the line, whose careers span five years if they’re lucky.
Fighters.com: Affliction’s payout has reportedly reached six or seven million dollars for the Banned card. We’ve seen this business model and it’s failed. Are you optimistic Affliction can build a financially sustainable promotion while paying fighters so much?
The Natural:Well, I’m certainly skeptical. Obviously I have a strong relationship with Todd [Beard, Affliction co-owner] through my partnership with Xtreme Couture clothing. And, I sat with Todd and told him, “Look, I’ve seen people do this before and I’m worried you’re going to lose this money. You know? The marketing piece, the brand piece is the big component. You need to generate interest in these fighters so people have a vested interest. That’s why the 24/7 with Golden Boy was so successful, because people wanted to tune in and see these guys fight. You know, get Fedor Emelianenko some exposure and get people to like Tim Sylvia…or hate him! One of the other if you want people to buy this pay-per-view.” Todd is a great marketing and sales mind. Obviously, Affliction is a very successful clothing line. This whole thing started because Dana thought he was hurting me and banned the Affliction clothing line. That got the hackles up on Todd’s neck and he decided, “OK, to hell with him then. we’ll do our own show if he wants to play that way.” The ban didn’t hurt me any. All those clothes and all those shirts, and denim, and all that stuff is in all the major market retail outlets across the country. The only person [Dana] hurt was the fighters Affliction was sponsoring in MMA. Took the money right out of their pockets. So, now [Dana] has a potentially formidable opponent that he created because he pissed [Todd] off and made him want to spend the money and throw a show. He signed a lot of the top heavyweights that were free agents and some of the other free agents out there that are going to put on a good card. I think [Todd's] marketing sense and ability to sell things is remarkable. Teaming up with FOX and streaming the undercard on the Internet on FOX is something new nobody’s tried yet and has the potential to be something huge. Yeah, I think we’re all anxiously waiting to see how successful Todd is with his show in July and how big the pay-per-view is. Now Trump is buying in and buying a piece of the MMA company. Obviously he brings a lot of juice and a lot of things to the table that could potentially put it over the hump. So, like you, I’ll be anxiously watching for a couple of reasons July 19th.
Fighters.com: Do you want to make some picks on upcoming fights?
The Natural: OK.
Fighters.com: Evan Tanner (32-7) versus “Spider” Kendall Grove (8-5)?
The Natural: I’m going to go with Kendall Grove. I think he’s long and rangy and will use his range well. I think his moving back to Hawaii was probably a good thing for him, I hope. I think Tanner, although I have a lot respect for Evan and his abilities, I think he has not put himself in a great position or a great environment to thrive and be in top shape as an athlete. So, I’m going to go with Kendall Grove.
Fighters.com:“Gumby” Jeremy Horn (79-17-5) versus “Boogieman” Dean Lister (10-5)?
The Natural: Wow! Tough fight! Both guys are great submission guys. I’m going to go with Dean Lister. I think he’s got naturally heavy hands. Both guys’ submission skills are great; but, I think Dean’s are a little better and that tends to be Jeremy Horn’s strength, so I’m going to lean towards Dean Lister.
Fighters.com:Third-ranked welterweight “Kos” Josh Koscheck (10-2) versus “Lights Out” Chris Lytle (25-15-5)?
The Natural:Tough fight, but I’m going to have to go with Koscheck. I think he’s shown remarkable improvement, even in the face of losing a couple of times. I’m sure that losing to Georges lit a fire under him. As much as I like to see Chris Lytle come out and lay it all on the line, he’s going to have trouble with Koscheck’s wrestling ability and I think Koscheck is going to end up putting him on the ground and establishing that good, solid top position and wearing Chris down.
Fighters.com:A couple of your old nemesi, fifth-ranked heavyweight “Babyface Assassin” Josh Barnett (21-5) versus “The Rock” Pedro Rizzo (16-7)?
The Natural: Yeah, that’s a tough call. It kind of depends on Josh Barnett. If he tries to go in there and stand with Pedro, it’s going to end like it ended last time, [Barnett knocked out]. Pedro is nobody to mess around with in the striking exchanges. Josh has the ability to transition and take Pedro to the ground, out of his game. I think, if that’s what Josh does, Josh will win that fight. Having not seen Pedro in awhile…actually, quite a while, it’s harder for me to pick that fight.
Fighters.com: Fourth-ranked heavyweight “Pitbull” Andrei Arlovski (12-5) versus Ben Rothwell (29-5)?
The Natural: I like Andrei. Ben is a big strong kid, but he’s still pretty green. I think Andrei’s on a mission. I think mentally he’s still a little held back by the results of the two Tim fights and he’s not pulling the trigger and really getting after it like he was. As far as pure boxing, he’s one of the best pure boxers we have in our sport. I’ll be excited to see him back out there. I think, overall, he’s got to be ready to go. He’s got to be in great shape. Rothwell is going to be in great shape and ready to bring the fight; but, Andrei has the tools to pull this off.
unclebulg said:
Good article
orange1 said:
Couture’s the man!
spamburgl said:
Couture had some good insights
venglin said:
Interesting about Ben Rothwell
krapnggt said:
I still think Andrei is the better fighter
inglish said:
yea, I don’t know
daign said:
Randy is doing really well with the gyms
zgsu559 said:
yup
digidcc2 said:
When will the court ruling be decided?
joesmailer said:
Very cool!!
KeithAllen said:
Randy makes a great point about building up fighters with pieces such as the HBO 24/7 series. Love or hate the show “Randy and Chuck” went from being only known around MMA fans to being mainstream recognized within the time period of TUF airing. You have to get people interested in the fighters to succeed as the casual/moderate fans far outweigh those who will watch any MMA. It’s a business.
If you were to relate the payouts to boxing it would more than likely only help the top fighters - the ones already getting paid decently. You rarely hear about other fights than the main event on boxing cards and one would be lead to believe with the outrageous boxing payouts that the under card isn’t being paid all that well. I have to agree with Dana that MMA is different than boxing. Could they afford to up fighter pay at all levels? Sure, they are making the money. However, MMA is still fairly new at this large of a scale though and it will take time.
I like Randy and I hope he gets a settlement in his favor. He has done amazing things on borrowed time, but realistically he can’t keep it up much longer.
ty said:
Nice to see it’s NOT about the money. Right. Just proves the point about athletes and dollars. They don’t worry about the money until there is money. Then that is all they care about
Danny Page said:
Fighter of what month take put Fedor in there…
mmo said:
good interview