Comments on: The Rise of The Mc-Blackbelt: Rashad Evans Receives Meaningless Belt

By: Scott

Scott — Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:10:52 +0000

A Black Belt is a beginning not the end. If one receives a legit black belt. In my opinion, It simply means Master of the Basics. The hard work put in after that rank is what makes one a practitioner. Most people quit learning after receiving the rank of black belt thinking they have learned it all. In reality it has just begun. And Yes, too many ranks are purchased these days.

By: sim

sim — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:14:38 +0000

Are you saying that “you” have trained more than Rashad Evans who is a professional fighter. Who has accumulated more training hours in one training camp than what a black belt anywhere else would potentially?? Who has competed against top competitors many black belts.

What an idiotic argument. He’s a former UFC champ.. (not 10 years ago) recent! champ… He is next level Jitz!!! There aren’t many black belts that can hang with Rashad he’s a tremendous athlete and thats why he deserves the belt. Don’t be upset because you don’t have his physical and mental gifts…

Besides as far as I know Rolls Gracie is a Renzo black belt… thats legit as you get who the hell are you?
I think this is a MC article is what this is…

By: ABQDB

ABQDB — Thu, 20 May 2010 05:00:04 +0000

Haha…. you all seem very caught up in the details of the belt.
When it comes down to it, what good is your black belt if you can’t use it to defend yourself?
MMA is not about how many hours you put in and the belt you have earned. That sounds more like Boy Scouts. Brass tax is, are you good enough to beat down a bjj black belt, or engage in the BJJ fight without getting beat down? I could care less what it takes to get that belt. I could care less about the color of your belt. This discussion is merely putting down a fighter and the sport. If your so great get in the Octagon with Rashad, if not shut your cake hole and stop hating. Peace!

By: Enrique Silva

Enrique Silva — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 02:14:13 +0000

The only belt that matters is the black belt. When I think of a black belt i think of a person very experienced and that has the techniques he or she uses second nature to them. Not only does the black belt is able to apply is art on the mat, but in every aspect of his life. In short i strongly believe in what one of my instructors, Rizzada, has told me, “your belt is your soul”. Your belt being your soul I believe it is wise to be sure it is pure and not filled with filthy lies.

By: bjjpr

bjjpr — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 02:47:14 +0000

@Lee Lee, are u blind or stupid. Because he won the Thiago fight doesn't mean he is a blackbelt and he didn't win with BJJ techniques. If u tell me that Rashad have been a bjj world championship tournament a couple of times and have won any of the genuine blackbelts there, then he can say that he is a real bjj black belt. Rashad is a fake!!! Period.

By: Reed Botwright

Reed Botwright — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 02:49:30 +0000

I think it is a mistake to confuse training and strategy in MMA. While it may be true that there is a proliferation of BJJ dojos of questionable qualification because of the popularity of MMA, a top-talent MMA fighter is not a good example of this. Rashad is a professional athlete who has attained his level of success through dedication, talent, and work. I don’t know how much Rashad trains in any discipline, but I bet is more than a lot of people who hold black belts. And to say that because he is a stand-up striker who utilized his wrestling base to control his fights is the equivalent of questioning Anderson Silva for not taking every fight to the ground and showcasing his skills because of his expertise in BJJ. Are all black belts equivalent? Unfortunately, no. But I think Rashad is a poor example in your argument.

By: mcr

mcr — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 00:39:22 +0000

I concur with well over 90% of what you wrote. It should be pointed out that anyone who receives a black belt from Helio’s oldest son, Rorion and his sons Ryron and Rener are truly deserving and can show it when rolling. I can’t speak for the other Gracie’s.

By: liljoel

liljoel — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:51:29 +0000

BJ Penn got his black belt in three years yes you are write butt he also won the world bjj championship

By: david c

david c — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:24:04 +0000

If Rolles gave Rashad his black, i would be sure that he earned it. I don’t know about you but as a practitioner of Jiu-Jitsu, My only concern is TRAINING, not who has what belt. That’s not for me to decide. Congrats to Rashad!

By: Anthony

Anthony — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 03:00:56 +0000

@Lee
I wouldnt knock Gracie University as being a McDojo. I train at an unaffiliated school and supplement my training with the Gracie Combatives curriculum and my understanding, retention, and application of basic techniques has improved exponentially. The belt testing system is legit as well, they grade u the same way on the computer as they would if u were there testing with them, and from my understanding, roughly 60-70 percent of the submitted test videos have been failed, so they are still grading these tests legitimately.
Is it the optimal way to train if u have access to a live school? No. Is it a good idea to supplement your training with this? Absolutely.
And just for the record, you cannot receive your Black belt from Gracie University, only your Blue. If you reach the level of being ready to test for your Black Belt by using the GU Master Cycle which they are still in the process of filming and releasing, you would have to go to the academy in Torrance and spend a week with the family so they can get to know not only your technique, but you as a person and your understanding of the Gracie family history, diet, and philosophy.
I doubted the system too at first, but after watching the lessons it really is quite legit and formidable.

By: Reverend Turk Vangel

Reverend Turk Vangel — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 23:15:53 +0000

@Lee

Actually it is a good example that shows what is happening today in MMA and BJJ.

As for Rashad dominating Silva with BJJ, that could not be further from the truth. He dominated hi with wrestling. When Rashad mounted Thiago easily escaped and hot back to his feet. When in side mount Rashad left a ton of space between himself and Silva thus allowing Silva to get back to half guard.

I would also like to say for the record, I am brilliant.

By: Lee

Lee — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 20:52:05 +0000

“Reverend”- You are either brilliant or a complete idiot…probably the latter. It’s no secret that the rise of the “McBlackbelt” is already here (thanks Gracie University and Gracie Barra USA), but to use Rolles and Rashad as your example is ridiculous. You either knew it was a terrible example and it would generate a lot of attention (brilliant), or you actually believe what you are saying (idiot).
Thiago Silva is a well known and respected black belt and Rashad dominated him with BJJ during the fight. Do you think this was just a fluke? You have no idea how hard and often Rashad has been training BJJ.

By: Reverend Turk of MMA Gospel Radio

Reverend Turk of MMA Gospel Radio — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 20:21:49 +0000

@D. Davis

D. Davis, you can join us on the show tonight from 8-10 PM EST at http://www.blogtalkradio.com/mmagospel We have a Cageside Chat, a live chat room, where you can discuss things with us as we are live on air. Tonight we are joined by Scott Jorgenson of the WEC and amateur fighter Chris Bennet who is 17-1 and who I feel will one day become the next BJ Penn.

You can also call into the show by dialing 347-857-1337.

Our guests tonight will be on at 8:15 and 8:45 so anytime after that would be a goof time to call in. In order to chat with us in the Cageside Chat you must register at Blog Talk which only takes a minute or two.

I look forward to seeing you there.

By: Daniel

Daniel — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 18:10:42 +0000

Awesome post. I think you are spot on and I am glad you have spoken up. I have seen a ton of MMA fighters that have a high belt ranking, but lack the basics on simple escapes or reversals while being in certain positions.

Thanks for the honesty!

@bjjdan

By: FightCaps

FightCaps — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:54:54 +0000

A lot of people are throwing around the meme that it takes 10,000 hours to truly master any discipline, and BJJ black belts are supposed to be true masters of their fighting craft. There are few exceptions to that rule. Even Mozart, the most famous musical child prodigy in history didn’t write what most consider to be his true masterworks until his late teens and early twenties – after he’d put well over 10,000 hours into music.
There are exceptions – BJ Penn DID fight in tournaments and proved himself to be more than a master over other blackbelts. Perhaps fighters like him and Rashad Evans should be issued honorary blackbelts, with real blackbelts granted after they’ve been at least 8 years into their studies.
That said, I’m glad it’s you calling Evan’s achievement “meaningless.”
Maybe you can take him – but I can’t! =)

By: FightCaps

FightCaps — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:53:49 +0000

There are exceptions – BJ Penn DID fight in tournaments and proved himself to be more than a master over other blackbelts. Perhaps fighters like him and Rashad Evans should be issued honorary blackbelts, with real blackbelts granted after they’ve been at least 8 years into their studies.

That said, I’m glad it’s you calling Evan’s achievement “meaningless.”

Maybe you can take him – but I can’t! =)

By: D. Davis

D. Davis — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:41:52 +0000

Hello there my name is D. Davis, id like to be on your show and speak up for myself as a Black Belt as im sure anyone who is worth the weight of that belt they wear would agree. I predicted this 3 years ago, the day will come when people will SELL OUT. Let me know how to get the word out with you that this is not right by no means. I know allot of people will say well you got your black belt in 5 years under Master Fabio Santos who is a Rickson Gracie black belt, but my resume says it all.

Awesome post. I think you said what the world was afraid to say.
D.Davis
Black Belt
Primal Jiu Jitsu San Diego

By: Anthony

Anthony — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 05:54:38 +0000

Could not have said it better myself.

By: Gaucho

Gaucho — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 22:12:20 +0000

Larguei esse papo de mão. Fui!!!

Chris, não entra na onde desse arrombado desse reverendo que isso é viadagem. Esse lance de ficar malhando os outros na rádio é coisa de baitola.

Abs,

Gaucho

By: Gaucho

Gaucho — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 21:39:13 +0000

“question about whether or not standards are as rigorous as they have been in the past.”

That is a simple question to answer. They have not been the same. The standards right now are lower than they were 10 years ago, and much lower from what they where 20 years ago. Also, it’s easy to say that standard started to get weaker as soon as JJ became widely available in the USA. So for the American JJ people, they are nothing but the Kettle calling the teapot black.

By: Chad Edward

Chad Edward — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 21:13:09 +0000

Unfortunately Gaucho, I think you’re right that your limited English comprehension limits you in this discussion. I didn’t make a statement or express an opinion about BJJ standards being more or less rigorous or the same level of rigor. I asked a question about whether or not standards are as rigorous as they have been in the past. I’m not a BJJ black belt or any belt, so I don’t really have an opinion on the subject.

By: Gaucho

Gaucho — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 21:02:25 +0000

Chad Edwards,

I’m sorry for the gringo thing, I know how you people get over sensitive with your pc. But rest assured whenever you come down to train in Brasil, that’s how people are going to call you, no disrespect intended. Everybody in Brasil is Negão, Japa, Paraíba etc etc and there’s no intention to hurt anybody by calling people that. As far as you saying:

“Turk does raise an issue worth discussing, which is whether BJJ standards are as rigorous as they have been in the past ”

All I can say to that is HAHAHAAHAHAHAHA, When I first got in contact with JJ I was in the Army in the early 90′s and my first JJ class was with another Gaucho brown belt by the name of Zé Mario Sperry (Now in case you don’t know c is a top level Black Belt under Carlson Gracie) and nobody on in Sul Jiu Jitsu (his Porto Alegre Academia at that time) would get a blue belt in less than 3 years of training, competing and putting a lot of training time, 3 years for the very dedicated,4 years for average. Purple belts there didn’t came to age unless they have nearly 7 or 8 years of training. Brown Belts??? Buddy, do you know what you have to be in JJ to get a brown belt in Brasil prior the 90′s? And you people in the USA are getting blue belts with a year training, most of you and your buddies are 2,3 years JJ purple belts and you want to tell me how the standards are not as rigorous as they use to be in the past??? What “past” are you talking about? 2000? 1995? 1990? 1985? 1980? As far as I’m concerned all you people are getting belts to quick in comparison that what it used to be. Now, even Zé Mario is handing a blue with a year training. I personally didn’t understood how was that possible. I was told that today the curriculum can be taught at a much faster pace and that anybody that trains 3 times a week for a 1 or 1 and half can be a blue belt. Oh well, ok… I may not like it, but JJ has changed the past decade and there’s lot’s of new implements that where not there when I first trained. Not to mention that JJ competition today has plenty of get my points here and “amarro” (don’t know how to say it in english) the rest of the fight. So lot’s of people that had previous “blue or purple belt defensive levels” can now survive with brown or even black at times and make it in a fight by points. If the points system was the same of back in the day, most of you people would get demoted. So why are you people talking about “not as rigorous as they have been”???? You all already got it easy from the start. Stop complaining and challenge this guy for a quimono closed doors already.

By: Chad Edward

Chad Edward — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 20:15:05 +0000

If Jorge calls into MMA Gospel Radio Wednesday, Turk can ask him about the comparison to Joe Moreira-Marco Ruas black belt. I’m not going to bother Jorge with the rest. He’s very busy and I don’t think Turk intended to slander anyone. Maybe you don’t agree with Turk’s tone, but you’re calling people gringos here, so I’m not sure you’re the right person to point that out. However, I think Turk does raise an issue worth discussing, which is whether BJJ standards are as rigorous as they have been in the past and whether the rise of MMA has affected those standards.

By: Gaucho

Gaucho — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:42:36 +0000

Chad Edward,

Can you ask Joinha how does this Rolles Gracie-RE compares to Joe Moreira-Marco Ruas black belt. And how did the “press” reacted it at that time and what does he thinks of people that don’t know Rolles and go to slender the guy without knowing how legit Rolls is.

By: Gaucho

Gaucho — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:18:37 +0000

Chad Edward,

” I don’t think little Rolles would give Rashad a black belt if he didn’t deserve it.”

That says it all.

As per calling a radio show, I don’t know if my english is that good.

By: Chad Edward

Chad Edward — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:58:04 +0000

A diplomatic response from the always gracious and interesting Jorge Guimarães:

“I wasn’t even aware that Rolles gave Rashad his Black Belt. Rashad is a black belt in wrestling and MMA without a doubt, but I haven’t seen him using much jiu-jitsu on his perfomances, but as an old student of Rolles’ father, and I don’t think little Rolles would give Rashad a black belt if he didn’t deserve it. Maybe Rashad trains with a gi frequently and we don’t know about it…”

Gaucho, why don’t you call in to Turk’s MMA Gospel Radio programme Wednesday between 8-10 PM EST and you and Turk can have it out on the air. I’ll see if Jorge wants to call in too, and perhaps Chris Moriarty too.

By: Gaucho

Gaucho — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:22:17 +0000

Chad Edward,

It would be nice to see what Joinha has to say about Turk’s attitude rather than his opinion. Anybody can have any opinions, how they handle it is what matters. Ask Joinha, a guy who’s one of the main JJ Journalists if he thinks that questioning Rolles is the way.

By: Gaucho

Gaucho — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:10:41 +0000

Chris ,

Meu irrmão, you sound like another breed of the JJ guys coming out of the USA. At least you speak our language so for the Americans that want to be so called “purists” at least they got know JJ like is taught here. I don’t blame Americans for that, I blame people teaching American and saying “rear naked choke” instead of Mata-leão. BBJ should be taught in our language. When I study judo people make my say everything in Japanese and etc. So why are people adjusting to you people over there rather than the other way around. Now to me as Brasilian that’s controversial. Don’t even get me started that the Mundial and Panamericano isn’t in Rio but every year in California. If those tournaments where in Brasil, most of the American people getting medal in the USA would have a rude awakening in Brasil, specially in the blue, purple and brown belt categories. I know tons of kids that can’t afford tickets or get a visa to fight in California but they would take medals if they competed no questions about it. Now you strike me like a guy that would come and fight in Brasil. I don’t know you but if you care enough to learn our language than you are obviously a dedicated guy. Unlike most of your counterparts. So if you are the type of guy I think you are, rather than going on this dude’s radio show to just talk garbage you should contact your professor and have him contact Rolles Gracie and say you want to have a closed doors with Rolles student because you believe his belt is fake and you want to avange JJ’s honor. You want to be a real BRASILIAN JJ fighter. You do that, that’s what I think. If I’m offended by anybody I will call them out. This talking on the radio about it is viadagem.

By: Chad Edward

Chad Edward — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:07:25 +0000

Well, I could call Joinha and ask him if he’s disappointed in Turk’s opinion. Perhaps I will and report what he says…

By: Gaucho

Gaucho — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:55:17 +0000

Turk,

For a self proclaimed “Reverend” you are just about over a decade too late with your story. Raising ontroversy over a Jiu-Jitsu black belt awarding a black belt to a guy from other art that has never competed with quimono or have never was a white>blue>purple>brown belt but has the grappling qualities to be a black belt already happened long time ago. Your claim is just about over 10 years too late. I guess you didn’t even knew what Jiu Jitsu was then and your lack of Jiu Jitsu history is so blatant that you didn’t know Joe Moreira awarded Marco Ruas a BB in Jiu Jitsu (that was a real controversy, at least for Brasil and for the real Jiu Jitsu purists) and even Eugenio Tadeu has a black belt in Jiu Jitsu, just saying that sounds crazy. It’s like saying OBL son is running for president in the USA. Now Rolles awarding a BB to a guy who trains for over 5 years as a professional and probably puts more hours a day than you, me, and at least half dozen more dudes on this post on training it’s controversial to you… Learn your Jiu Jitsu history if you want to pretend that you know what you’re talking about. Damn you make me miss the days Joinha, tatame, passando a guarda and etc where the only channels of information. Now any clown with an Internet access, ipod podcast, blog and a few years of JJ is a fighter journalist. Oswaldo Paquetá and Joinha most hear about people like you and hate the fact we ever taught you gringos anything about arte suave. If jiu jitsu is going to be ruined, it’s thanks to you people.

By: Reverend Turk of MMA Gospel Radio

Reverend Turk of MMA Gospel Radio — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:34:06 +0000

Chris,

It is nice to have such an accomplished jiu jitsu fighter such as yourself comment on the article. Can you use the “contact us” feature at the bottom of the page to send me your email or phone number? I would like to have you on MMA Gospel Radio as a guest.

By: Gaucho

Gaucho — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:08:22 +0000

Chris ,

Mermão, parada é a seguinte. O Rolles é criado no mesmo sistema e ambiente que o Renzo, eles são tão conectados que são da mesma equipe de origem e o Rolles eh professor na equipe do Renzo ja tem anos. Os caras são farinha do mesmo saco (no bom sentido) ou seja, Rolles é sangue bom, cara de primeira categoria, guerreiro do JJ e tudo mais que o Renzo tambem é. Meu amigo, o pessoal americano ta fazendo tempestade em copo d’agua pq esse negocio de dar faixa preta não teve nem jamais ver ter uma historia com tanta controversia como quando o Joe Moreira deu faixa preta pro Marco Ruas. Cara, eu lembro que teve gente enlouquecendo. Achando que era creontagem do Joe Moreira pq o Marco Ruas era o “Inimigo do Jiu Jitsu”. Acredite ou não o Marco Ruas lutou ate contra o Pinduka, imagina uma coisa dessas? E quando o Marco Ruas passou a treinar pra Vale Tudo o cara estava anos luz a frente de todo mundo, brasileiros, gringos e ate os japoneses. O Ruas foi realmente o primeiro lutador de MMA mas ele nunca foi do Jiu Jitsu, agora vai rolar com ele pra tu ver se ele não tem nivel de faixa preta…
Porra se o Joe Moreira deu a faixa pro cara eh pq ele tem condiçoes, nego ficou muito puto da cara no Brasil com essa historia do Marco Ruas. Esta sim foi uma controversia de verdade. Aqui uma entrevista dele falando da historia, onde varios lutadores do JJ aparecem (Rickson, Renzo, Wallid, Pinduka e outros)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5zPwPqVkyI

Galera ta cagando pra esse lance desse Americano de agora. Essa reclamação de voces é exagero. Cara o fato é simples, se o Rolles deu faixa preta pra esse cara é pq ele tem condiçoes. Ele não daria se o cara não tivesse condiçoes, simples assim.

By: punisher

punisher — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 07:43:43 +0000

Chris Moriarty,
You’re just a bitch! I bet Rashad would clean the mats with your ugly ass. And Rolles would shove your head up your butt.
Cry baby.

By: Chris Moriarty

Chris Moriarty — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 03:48:26 +0000

Gaucho,

Eu respeito muito o Renzo. Nao conheco bem o Rolles , mas nao tenho nada contra ele. Contudo, eu tambem acho que isso e uma situacao estranho. Eu sinceramente espero que o Rolles tenha um motivo forte para dar essa faixa preta.

By: Chris Moriarty

Chris Moriarty — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 03:14:47 +0000

This is disappointing. I don’t really care. I will never promote my students this way. I just don’t understand why Rolles felt like he had to do it. Since when does being good at MMA = being a BJJ black belt? For me, jiu jitsu is a way of life, not just something I do because I have to be proficient at it to win MMA fights.

I don’t care how good you are, to be a black belt you should have the knowledge of jiu jitsu to pass it on to others. If you can train with bjj guys and survive because you are an athlete, good for you, but you are not a black belt. If you are not competing and winning in BJJ tournaments or (if you are not a competitor) have not spent at least 6-7 years training in a bjj academy, you still have so much to learn before you should be allowed to hold the responsibility of being a black belt.

This is not a Rashad bash. I am sure that Rashad would whip my ass all over the octagon, but I can guarantee you that he doesn’t know 1/10th of the bjj that I knew before earning my black belt.

Chris Moriarty

By: Gaucho

Gaucho — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 00:36:34 +0000

Who exactly are “some of these guys” and whoever they are, to include Rolles in such a list is incredibly disrespectful. Rolles is a fine individual, a long time competitor and teacher and this guy comes from the finest JJ lineage. Not to mention he directly associated with Renzo and GB and they stand for being honest and direct. Renzo is no bulshiter and I know nobody associated with him is in any way, shape or form someone who would be doing trades, schemes or funny business like you said. I don’t even care for this Rashad guy, I haven’t seen enough of the guy to pass judgment on whether or not he’s worthy of anything, but I think nobody that isn’t a BB is in position to question one’s belt if that was awarded by a 100% legit, well established and unquestionable BB like Rolles Gracie. Anybody that thinks that, should just use the approach that is used in Brasil. Rather than bad mouthing the guy, give Rolles or Renzo academia a call and ask for a closed doors with the guy and go home with your questions answered. That’s my advice to you or anybody that really thinks that he “lives Jiu Jitsu” or is defending a bandeira do Jiu Jitsu. Back when the Jiu Jitsu X Luta Livre was a strong war lot’s of people had a problem with many guys from Luta Livre, but when Brasileiros where out fighting Americans and whatnot they even had JJ and LL guys together helping each other out, so Joe Moreira awarded Marco Ruas with a BB and lot’s of people in Brasil went crazy because they said he couldn’t be a BB because he was LL and never had a blue belt or roxa or marrom and never competed JJ with pano etc etc. Same history as right now. So Carlson Gracie said that anybody that was questioning his chao should just go and roll with the guy so they would have their answer. I think the same may apply to this case right now. I’m not crazy about Marco Ruas, but if Joe Moreira gave him a belt, this guy is a BB period. Joe Moreira also gave Eugenio Tadeu a faixa preta (Eugenio fought Royler, Renzo, Wallid Ismail and many other JJ BB) and even Helio Gracie once said that if he had 11 sons like Eugenio they would always be black belts. Now, the same thing, Eugenio Tadeu never put a quimono on his body ever, and he fought Renzo, Royler and other legit faixa pretas and when he got his faixa preta nobody said anything. I don’t know if you are familiar with the story when Marco Ruas got his faixa preta but it was big time crying and talking from everybody just ask any Brasilians you know or train with and they will tell you. The dude never wore a quimono either, Joe Moreira trained with him and rolled with the guy so he reckoned he was worthy so he awarded him. I think that is very different from just giving a buddy a BB just because you like that guy or you want publicity. Again, if anybody thinks that the belt isn’t legit, just call him out, go to the academia and have a closed doors. Is well accepted in JJ you do that, so may suggestion to you is that you call Rolles and say you doubt his student and you want to have a portas fechadas” with the guy.

Boa sorte.

By: Reverend Turk Vangel

Reverend Turk Vangel — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 00:10:48 +0000

@Gaucho I am currently working on learning Portuguese. I know Rolles is well known and respected in jiu jitsu but to think that some of these guys don't give out belts in trade is narrow minded thinking in my opinion.

By: Gaucho

Gaucho — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 23:14:38 +0000

Good thing Turk, if you need any contacts let me know, since you said you train I assumed you would be more comfortable with people from your academia but I advise you to visit others if you can. If you really want to become the “defender” of the art at is pure form as you claim I would think you would try to speak the language.

Baiana, cem quilos, raspagem, crucifixo etc etc etc

This whole “gi, no gi” is gringo talk, everybody knows it’s called a kimono. Also, you would be surprised in how many more people in Brasil would be offended at you saying that you are defending “Helio’s art” rather than worried about Rolles Gracie awarding someone a belt. It’s not like the kid is a nobody, he’s been around and is constant presence in tournaments for at least 20 years so if gives some gringo kid a belt tomorrow I’m not doubting the guy for a sec. This guy is the son of Rolls, you should know better than to question somebody like that.

By: Reverend Turk Vangel

Reverend Turk Vangel — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:59:35 +0000

@Gaucho I am actually planning a trip to Brasil in the near future to do just that. I am looking forward to the experience.

By: graplord

graplord — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:37:58 +0000

u guys are just jealous that rashad was good enough to earn it in 5 years. cmon stop hating on the guy. this is his profession, which means hes good at it and devotes everything to his trade. why should there be time restrictions on people who are brilliant at what they do? if ur good ur good baby

By: Gaucho

Gaucho — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:07:50 +0000

Escuta aqui viadinho:

1 – If Rolles Gracie awards anybody anything is 100% legit. So you already screwed up there.

2 – It ain’t “Helio JJ” because Rolles is the son of Rolls who’s son of CARLOS so you screwed up there again.

3 – I am brasilian and when I got in contact with JJ you are not even watching Royce on tv, to tone it down on the “I’m defending the art”, you don’t know that much about it. Come down to Brasil and train at least a day in the country and then we talk. When I first trained JJ almost 15 years ago, it would take people 3 years to get a blue belt, now in the USA people get promoted to that in a year, so I don’t see any problems for a guy who trains hours everyday and already has a takedown background to get a BB in five. What’s up with you being jealous of the guy putting hard work and having the skills? Hit the mat and train and shut up. Viadinho.

By: Reverend Turk Vangel

Reverend Turk Vangel — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 21:45:50 +0000

For the record, we use mixedmartialarts.com because they’re the official
records database of the Association of Boxing Commissions, which is the
organization of state athletic commissions sanctioning MMA in North America.
So, though not all of the records are correct, they are official in North
America.

By: Trouble Bruin

Trouble Bruin — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 20:54:19 +0000

@miked:

“Again, that is your opinion. But what is Royce doing now? I believe he’s handing out belts like Big Mac’s at your local McDojo…last time I checked.”

I hope you have some references/proof for that. I personally know *lots* of people with legitimate competition wins, both in BJJ, submission wrestling (no gi), amateur and pro MMA who have been deservedly promoted by Royce, myself included. I’m sure many would be happy to step on the mat with you in order to prove it.

By: miked

miked — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 18:38:08 +0000

@Turk We gte all of our records directly from mixedmartialarts.com
* Then I suggest using another source since MixedMartialArts.com seems to be the only incorrect source out there.

@Turk As for the sentence you discussed. Yes he has recently been training…at Greg Jackson’s and Renzo’s where before he was only at Renzo’s. Reading comprehension 101 sir.
* You stated, “Rolles Gracie has recently been training in MMA under Renzo Gracie in Holmdel, NJ and Greg Jackson in Albuquerque, NM.” Turk, maybe you didn’t mean what you said, or you are sorry for saying it because you sounded ignorant – but there is nothing to misinterpret in your statement above. You implied that Rolles has been training MMA only recently, and that is a joke.

@Turk I actually follow both on Twitter and I have been a fan the sport since the 90’s. Him training with Rashad is one of my points. Guerss you missed that.
* Really, then how could you possibly have his record wrong???

@Turk I know who the founder of Gracie Jiu Jitsu is but I was reffering to Helio as he is the one considered to be the father of modern BJJ, the form we currently see.
* This is your opinion, not a fact. It’s completely subjective. I guess you didn’t read/listen to the interview with Renzo Gracie that I posted. You should know that the issue of who is the true founder of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, modern or otherwise, is an issue that divides the jiu-jitsu community. Helio has his followers and Carlos Sr. has his own. You don’t need to try and school me on this family history.

@Turk Carlos taught a much different jiu jitsu and if it was not for Helio I am not sure if we would have seen someone like Royce dominate int he early UFC’s.
* Again, that is your opinion. But what is Royce doing now? I believe he’s handing out belts like Big Mac’s at your local McDojo…last time I checked.

@Turk As for me stepping on the mat, I have and I do.
* You are missing my point. Anyone who wants to ridicule the jj skills of Rashad Evans should really have the experience and knowledge before assuming that he is undeserving of his belt or implying that Rolles Gracie awarded Rashad his BB as a “thank you” for trading wrestling skills. Have you taken one of Rolles’ classes or seminars? Have you watched him compete? The press says overwhelmingly positive things about this guy, so who are you? I suggest you stop by one of the Renzo Gracie academies in NY or NJ for some training to see how it’s done. They have some purple belt females who will put you to sleep.

@Turk This article was based on Rashad and Rolles but it shines the light on what is happening all around the sport.
* Well then, you chose the wrong Gracie to try and illustrate your point. There are certainly some Gracie’s out there doing exactly what you describe. Ever heard of “Gracie University” where you learn jiu-jitsu at home and test ONLINE? The website states, “Our grandfather’s [Helio's] vision was to share the gift of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu with people all over the world. Thanks to global internet availability, and the development of a revolutionary interactive online learning system, his dream will come true, and his legacy will live on forever!” Really? Where is your attack on Ryron and Rener Gracie? 2 BB’s who don’t even compete! Talk about a McDojo!”

You attempted to make an example out of Rashad and Rolles but you didn’t have the knowledge or facts. You clearly know nothing about Rolles Gracie, his capabilities or his style of teaching. You might as well have just written, “Rashad Evens received his BB from [insert any Gracie here].” If you are going to attack a Gracie, focus your energy on those West Coast belt-factories.

@Turk I have a ton of resepect for the Gracie’s and one day hope to have a true Gracie Barra school where I live.
* It’s silly to state that you have respect for “the Gracie’s.” There are too many to count and not all of them are out there teaching the “real jiu-jitsu.” But do your homework before you personally attack a highly-decorated 2nd Degree BB from whom you’d be lucky to receive a minute of training. Or even better, do your homework, read the magazines, listen to the interview, watch UFC 109 and shut your mouth.

By: Reverend Turk of MMA Gospel Radio

Reverend Turk of MMA Gospel Radio — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 18:30:28 +0000

Roy,

I mentioned in the article that there seem to be videos floating around of Rashad rolling in the gi at Nate Marquardt’s gym. However, I have never seen or heard of Rashad being promoted to any status until this came out.

I have searched high and low and have been unable to find any such information.

I have even gone so far as to try and contact Rolles on the issue with no response.

I do know that Rashad is a black belt under Jackson’s system but that is not traditional BJJ.

By: Roy

Roy — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 18:00:29 +0000

Is there any history of Rashad receiving any other promotions along the way. Id he did things like diego Sanchez did and go through the promotion ranks spending some time at each rank then it seems the promotion could be easily defended. If he was promoted to Black without ever even wearing a white belt, then it is hard to look on this as a very proper promotion.

By: Reverend Turk of MMA Gospel Radio

Reverend Turk of MMA Gospel Radio — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 12:53:38 +0000

@miked

We gte all of our records directly from mixedmartialarts.com

As for the sentence you discussed. Yes he has recently been training…at Greg Jackson’s and Renzo’s where before he was only at Renzo’s. Reading comprehension 101 sir.

I actually follow both on Twitter and I have been a fan the sport since the 90′s. Him training with Rashad is one of my points. Guerss you missed that.

I know who the founder of Gracie Jiu Jitsu is but I was reffering to Helio as he is the one considered to be the father of modern BJJ, the form we currently see. Carlos taught a much different jiu jitsu and if it was not for Helio I am not sure if we would have seen someone like Royce dominate int he early UFC’s.

As for me stepping on the mat, I have and I do.

This article was based on Rashad and Rolles but it shines the light on what is happening all around the sport.

I have a ton of resepect for the Gracie’s and one day hope to have a true Gracie Barra school where I live.

Thanks for reading the article and feel free to stop in at anytime.

By: SUB

SUB — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 12:27:29 +0000

If Rolles says he has a blackbelt… then he has a black belt! That man has ridiculouis jiu-jitsu and he knows better than handing out candy belts. Rashad got his belt in Just over 5 years of FULL TIME training with some of the best in the world… AND Rashad has gone on record talking about how he fashioned himself a striker. He didn’t go for take-downs despite his top level wrestling…… Even against Machida he thought he could win by KO…. Lets also not forget that wrestlers pick up Jiu-jitsu rather quickly all things considered……

Its plausible. I do not doubt that McBlack Belts are a disgusting phenomenon….. But I would never accuse Rolles Gracie of handing one out. If Rolles says rashad’s jiu jitsu is up to snuff… then it is. Pure and simple

By: Xander

Xander — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 10:09:24 +0000

Just because Rashad doesn’t submit people or use his offensive bjj in no way does it mean that his bjj skills are not black belt status. Lets not forget that Rashad is a professional top fighter who also happens to have a very solid wrestling base. With the intensity that he trains in, there’s no doubt in my mind that his bjj skills exceed that of the average shmoe black belt (I’m referring to you article writer). A fighter doesn’t have to change his style because he wants to show he knows an art he trains in. Each fighter tries to establish a formula of fighting that suits their style. Rashad feels more comfortable using only his defensive bjj in his fights. That in no way translates to him being less of grappler. In fact I would have doubt in my mind that he would outpoint many of the supposed good black belts in tourneys.

By: Ricky

Ricky — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:30:10 +0000

great article

I guess if Rashad can get a Black belt in BJJ in just 4 YEARS!!.. due to his past wrestling abilities and MMA performances then BROCK LESNARS should be given his REDBELT right NOW!

Seriously this is shame, cause BBJ belt use to mean something.

This whole thing smells very fishy, but hey… at least they can mention that Rashad is a Renzo/Rolles Gracie BB every time he enters the cage… hmmm funny that…

nothing like Free advertising.